As I watched BYU wallop the U in basketball last night (and after I finished killing the heathen in Stronghold: Crusader), I got on KSL to see what was going on in the world. Or, at least, the world of the wasatch front. There was yet another article about immigration, and what the Utah legislature is going to be doing. Following a call for compassion, followed by the alliance for unity publishing a statement signed by many community, business, and religious leaders. It seems like there have been some moves to moderate some of the legislation, as well as some alternate legislation offered.
Then, in my stupidity, I clicked on the comment section of the story. Over 100 comments. A good friend of mine, who disagrees with me about immigration, but can at least discuss the problem intelligently and reasonably, has long told me that the Sean Hannity idea of illegals is the minority. If one were to take the comments on KSL as any indication, he would be dead wrong. They amount of anger, vitriol, blatant racism, and complete lack of information among these various opinions is absolutely staggering. And this is coming from someone who deals with almost mind numbing stupidity on a daily basis working with people who for one reason or another don't want to support their children.
If you feel like getting a taste, the comment board is here.
I can understand people being frustrated with the lack of any sort of immigration policy in our country. And, I am also 100% in support of enforcement of immigration laws. So, in a reasonable discussion, I can see where the other side is coming from. Its not good to have a swiss cheese border, that is obvious. Its not great to have millions of people in the country undocumented. It breeds problems like rabbits. It encourages identity theft, etc. And, lest we forget, it is against the law. That isn't a small thing. I support increased border patrol, or electronic survellience at the border. I don't have a problem with a wall (although the idea that it would stop people is stupid, it could be useful in many areas to halt vehicle traffic, which would actually affect drug running etc.).
But, every single argument and vitriol laden rant on that board was comprised of the same type of arguments. I will touch on those each.
1. They are here illegally, what about our laws?
Thats true, they broke the law. And, as a very prosecutorial minded person, I think that should not go unpunished. So, I am all for fining the people who came here illegally of their own choice. Yes, it may be burdensome, but I think that is not an overwhelming price to pay.
2. They are sucking our economy dry.
This is based on a complete lack of understanding in my opinion. First, they are working, which stimulates the economy. Second, they are not stealing jobs. Jobs are wildly abundant, and I have listened to more than one business owner (from across the spectrum vocationally) talk about how they can flat out not fill the positions that they have. And that included a recent interview on KSL radio where a general contractor was talking about 20-25$ an hour jobs that he could not get people to apply for.
3. Sub argument of above; they are siphoning millions in social services.
Now, I will be the first to admit that I don't fully understand the process whereby people can apply for, or receive services. However, I have heard individuals who actually work in the field say specifically that an illegal cannot receive services (people with specific info can clarify), however their children can (I believe this is what they said). That having been said, how can anyone have a problem with some vital services going to children who did not have a choice in the matter.
4. Their children are getting a free education, and my tax dollars pay for it!
Again, so you are mad that children, who had no choice in the matter are getting an education. That is a horrible thing. *please note sarcasm*
5. I have no problem with immigration, I just want them to do it legally.
Now, anyone who says this falls into one of two categories. First, you could just completely not understand how legal immigration works (or doesn't work), or Second, you are a liar that wants to not sound as harsh as your actually feelings. Legal immigration is broken. They are still processing applications from ten years ago. They run out of worker visas in February or March, though hundreds of thousands of new jobs will be created for the rest of the year. If you can kick a soccer ball into a net, you can get a visa in a matter of weeks or months (if not just a few phone calls). But, if you just want to come here, take one of the literally thousands of jobs available in Utah right now, and provide for your family, maybe in 2019 we'll get to processing your request.
I'll bottom line my opinion on this one. And I will be the first to admit, I am fairly vehement on this issue. Our country had some pretty basic principles it was founded on. And, moving from founding through the turn of the century into the 1900's immigration was pretty much please come, we'll give you free land out west. Requirements? Finding your way here, maybe checking in at ellis island (if thats the port you happen to come through). Possible quarentine if you have symptoms of certain diseases. Now, I'll be the first to admit that the world is different today. We do need more security than that. However, I think claiming that we have to cap immigration to preserve our country is asinine. First, it presumes that everyone in the world wants to live here, which is a bit conceited. I surely believe this is the greatest country on earth, but a lot of people like their own just fine.
Our immigration policy should be open door, multi-use, and secure. People who want to be citizens should be welcomed, people who want to work should be allowed, people who want to visit should be shown where Yellowstone is. We aren't running out of space, we aren't running out of resources, and we aren't due any sort of special consideration because we happened to be born here. That is a blessing, not an entitlement.
This is obviously simplistic. I am not going to go into all of the policy type ideas that I have come to either believe in, or be amenable to through all the discussions I have had with people that either believe similar to myself, or disagree on a lot of it.
There can be consensus, this could be fixed. But the level of anger, hate, racism, misundertanding, lack of information, etc. is so staggering, and so detrimental to a real discussion of the problem and possible solutions its disturbing. And the ability of so many to hold such confused, and dangerously angry opinions baffles me.
5 comments:
As the Church, we have been failing a lot when it comes to using understanding and tolerance. Our true test is not standing up to adversity but dealings with the temptations of power. We are becoming just like the Nephites of old, to filled with pride, hate, and anger to apply the principles of Christ. It shouldn't suprise you Dan, it has happened so much in the past. But you know what we still go to church and obey the word of wisdom so I'm sure God still considers us righteous.
It saddens me Dan. I'm not suprised by it, as it is what has always happened. I just hoped that we would be better than what the past was.
The adversary uses all means to corrupt and lead away. One of his means is intolerance and hatred. President Hinckley was a great example of how we should behave. Standing true and immovable in doctrine and practice, while showing love and caring for the person. How can we expect mercy when we are completly unwilling to give it. Living in the "Promised Land" and being members of the church brings with it much responsibility to help those that are in bondage of all forms.
To clarify the social services: This is a State issue so I am referring to Utah only. In Utah, only legal residents and citizens are eligible for food stamps, financial aid and medicaid. The only exception is medicaid for expectant mothers in their 9th month and for 1 month after the birth. This is considered emergency care.
Now to the loophole. Citizen children of ineligible undocumented imigrants are eligible for benefits. Since they are minors, their parents receive the benefits on their behalf. The ineligible parent is still not considered for purposes of the amount of the assistance, however, their income is counted against them for qualification purposes.
So, indirectly the ineligible parent and any other ineligible family members benefit from the assistance.
This is exactly the same for legal resident and citizen families. Ineligibles constantly benefit from the assistance of family and friends through dishonesty and deception. There is an entire section of DWS (the administrative agency for welfare in Utah) that investigates welfare fraud.
It seems to me that the VAST majority of those that are angry and vicious about illegal immigration do not understand how incredibly broken the immigration system is. This is evident by the huge number of comments stating that "they" should just file their papers and do it right. It truly seems that these angry mobs are just ignorant of the near impossibility that it is to come here legally as a normal person.
I hold to the belief (maybe just a little naively) that most people who have little or no mercy for these immigrants would be softened greatly if they personally knew and liked someone in that situation.
Jimmy,
I totally agree. We, as Church members , should be the examples of compassion and tolerance. Instead, I feel like we are constantly moving farther from compassion and more toward intolerance and just plain meaness.
Try the newest attraction at Lagoon. It's the Pride Cycle and it's quite a ride.
I went to the Colorado Republican caucus on super tuesday last month. It was interesting to see the process, and it was nice that the place was packed. We all voted in the straw poll (with Mitt Romney winning by a huge margin). The party insider who led the meeting urged us all to support whichever candidate ended up winning, even though many were violently opposed to McCain and swore they could never vote for him.
It was hard to get people to speak and get a discussion going. That changed when the issue of immigration came up. I was dismayed at how many in that room believed, but not surprised - I do listen to talk radio, after all.
Fortunately, I was not alone in standing up to the loudmouths, who seemed stunned that anyone in their own party could disagree with them. The talking head protested that it was all just about documentation, and how could we be opposed to requiring documentation of all immigrants? I replied that we probably did all agree on documentation, but not on the rest. He denied there was any rest; all he had been talking about was documentation.
This was disingenuous, at least. He had been talking about drugs, and crime, and language, and culture, telling stories for which he probably usually received laughs, or rueful chuckles at least. But they exposed him as a racist. ("No! I'm not a racist! I employ hispanics, legal ones. I couldn't do business without them." Yeah, whatever)
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